Water Stations and the Cowardly Act of Destruction

[Rick Oltman]

I think most of these stories are contrived or manipulated. Anybody who dies within a few miles of the borders is put into the "deaths in the desert" catagory whether they were killed by drug cartels, corrupt Mexican officials, border bandits or the elements.

Better that there be no water stations to lure the illegals into a very dangerous area.

Better yet, have the cleptocratic-narco-dictatorship that rules Mexico create more opportunities IN Mexico so that the people aren't so desperate to leave.

The open borders crowd is also corrupt and lie so much that we should consider anything they say to be false.

[ras6057]

I think most of these stories are contrived or manipulated. Anybody who dies within a few miles of the borders is put into the "deaths in the desert" catagory whether they were killed by drug cartels, corrupt Mexican officials, border bandits or the elements.

Better that there be no water stations to lure the illegals into a very dangerous area.

Better yet, have the cleptocratic-narco-dictatorship that rules Mexico create more opportunities IN Mexico so that the people aren't so desperate to leave.

The open borders crowd is also corrupt and lie so much that we should consider anything they say to be false.

Rick you surprise me. You make it sound that the U.S. Border Patrol; and the U.S. Customs, Border and Customs is not doing their job.

As I said before most undocumented immigrants do not know about the water stations exist in the desert or the mountains. My personal involvement is not contrived, manipulated or corrupted. It is altruistic. I ask nothing in return.

My offer still stands, next Saturday we the "Desert Angels" will be doing a run to fill water stations with water. Can you come? We will supply the water.

The "lure" is the American dream.

Eliminate the "lure" of jobs in the United States by employers for undocumented immigrants.

With respect to the comment about "deptocractic-narco-dictatorship" maybe some truth about that statement but Mexico has the proof something is done about the drug traffic to the United States. I see it everyday. Tons (not pounds) and I mean tons of drugs in each shipment are stopped from going into the United States. Five hundred million dollars in cash was confiscated by the Mexican’s military coming from the United States just the other day. Drug lords or their ranking individuals are being captured it seems weekly and jailed for life. Government Officials, police are arrested and jailed for life. Their homes, bank accounts, vehicles, jewelry, pension, vacation homes are confiscated by the Mexican government.

Our BP and CBP make daily drug arrest with the help of the sniffing dogs at the Port of Entry and border region. The vehicles, money, drugs is confiscated and the individual(s) incarcerated.

Eliminate the demand for drugs in the United States.

When the United States catches an economic cold it has an effect on the Mexican’s economy the same economic cold it has affected the whole world.

The upside has it many American companies have come to Mexico under NAFTA creating many job opportunities in Mexico for Mexicans. With that said, more opportunities for jobs need to be created in Mexico.

The "open border crowd" as you put it wants a safe and a
humane border. I want a controlled border; a safe and humane border.

I don't have a problem of you expressing your opinion and I value your opinion but don't make it personal, please. Signed by Ray Askins

[Calamagrostis]

After doing a bit of web searching I believe that it is true that some mis-guided anti-immigration activists are sabotaging these desert water tanks. I myself have mixed feelings about these tanks, and I can understand how someone who is frustrated with the illegal immigration problem might want to take direct action. But I think that sabotaging a humanitarian gesture is very damaging to the effort to stop illegal immigration.

The unfortunate reality is that some anti-immigration folks are hateful and some are racists, and the pro-immigration propagandists always try to lump us all together.

People who believe that population stabilization and limits on immigration are essential to a sustainable society need to speak out loudly against racism. One way to do this is to point out that limits on immigration and enforcement of labor laws will benefit minority communities throughout the United States.

The border should have more security, but ultimately the answer lies in stopping criminal business owners from hiring illegals. That is one of the fascinating aspects of this problem, it is perpetuated by right-wing business owners and left-wing humanitarians who are usually political enemies. Look at who is blocking E-Verify.

[ras6057]

After doing a bit of web searching I believe that it is true that some mis-guided anti-immigration activists are sabotaging these desert water tanks. I myself have mixed feelings about these tanks, and I can understand how someone who is frustrated with the illegal immigration problem might want to take direct action. But I think that sabotaging a humanitarian gesture is very damaging to the effort to stop illegal immigration.

The unfortunate reality is that some anti-immigration folks are hateful and some are racists, and the pro-immigration propagandists always try to lump us all together.

People who believe that population stabilization and limits on immigration are essential to a sustainable society need to speak out loudly against racism. One way to do this is to point out that limits on immigration and enforcement of labor laws will benefit minority communities throughout the United States.

The border should have more security, but ultimately the answer lies in stopping criminal business owners from hiring illegals. That is one of the fascinating aspects of this problem, it is perpetuated by right-wing business owners and left-wing humanitarians who are usually political enemies. Look at who is blocking E-Verify.

Calamagrostic you are beginning to think like I do.

With respect of those blocking E-Verify the "lure of jobs" should be controlled. Employers should be held accountable. It is a humane way to control our borders.

In the meantime we must keep putting out water in the water stations. You are welcome to join us next Saturday. Signed by Ray Askins

[Calamagrostis]

Ras, I don't have a problem with you providing water, but I think that some of the people that you are working with might be going much further to actually be providing rides or housing or jobs. And some pro-immigration people go even further to oppose e-verify or or any attempt to protect the lowest paid U.S. citizens from being undermined by immigrants who will work for much less. If you read Eric Schlosser's Fast Food Nation and In The Strawberry Fields you will begin to understand how big business has waged a war against workers. I worked with an Ohlone Indian, you can't get more Californian than that, and he told me about how Mexicans would steal his jobs. And this guy was bi-lingual and called Mexicans his border-brothers, but he understood how mass immigration hurt him.

[ras6057]

Ras, I don't have a problem with you providing water, but I think that some of the people that you are working with might be going much further to actually be providing rides or housing or jobs. And some pro-immigration people go even further to oppose e-verify or or any attempt to protect the lowest paid U.S. citizens from being undermined by immigrants who will work for much less. If you read Eric Schlosser's Fast Food Nation and In The Strawberry Fields you will begin to understand how big business has waged a war against workers. I worked with an Ohlone Indian, you can't get more Californian than that, and he told me about how Mexicans would steal his jobs. And this guy was bi-lingual and called Mexicans his border-brothers, but he understood how mass immigration hurt him.

Calamagrostis anything is possible. I have been working with the founder of the water stations and he thinks like I do. Every hour on the hour the other voluntaries check in with him by cell phone. Then you have the US BP are always around in the desert. We drive by then all of time. We even double check (spot check at random) water stations have been re-supplied with water.

Believe me when I say this, I would be the first to blow the whistle if someone was providing housing or even rides from the verious water stations.

One of my future reports will be on the field workers and how they are exploited by big Farmers in this area. The field workers are talking to me all of the time all of which have a work permit, legal residences or have U.S.Citizenship. I will read what you have suggested.

I suggest you look further into those that are working in those you talk about. I am interested on what you have collected from your Chlone indian friend. Signed by Ray Askins

[Rick Oltman]

These are contrived stories. If there was any damage it was probably done by smugglers to give them an excuse to carry new barrels out and bring the old ones in, with illegals inside. Never underestimate the creativity of the criminal mind.

And, of course, the Mexican government won't put up warning signs, they want the illegal aliens coming to America, they encourage it.

Better that the government remove the water barrels becuase they aid and abet criminals, and warn everyone that they are not there. That way they will not be lured into the desert with a promise of water that may or may not be there.

[ras6057]

These are contrived stories. If there was any damage it was probably done by smugglers to give them an excuse to carry new barrels out and bring the old ones in, with illegals inside. Never underestimate the creativity of the criminal mind.

And, of course, the Mexican government won't put up warning signs, they want the illegal aliens coming to America, they encourage it.

Better that the government remove the water barrels becuase they aid and abet criminals, and warn everyone that they are not there. That way they will not be lured into the desert with a promise of water that may or may not be there.

Rick you are welcome to come out Saturday and see for yourself the water stations. You have a chance to see if any smugglers are lurking about the water stations.

The U.S. DHS approves the water stations. Department of U.S. Land Management approves the water stations. The U.S. Military approves the water stations. The different communities surrounding the water station approves. It seems you are the only lone person that does not approve the water stations.

I wish you stop calling me a lair by calling my stories contrived. Remember the "LURE" is the AMERICAN DREAM. I wonder how long will you last in the desert without water? Signed by Ray Askins

[Rick Oltman]

Well, the truth is that until any vandals are caught damaging these criminal abeting barrels, we are free to speculate about their fate.

Better they be removed altogether, nobody will die as a result of thinking there is a water station in the desert for them to fill up on.

We should put signs up that say "Next Water, 50 Miles." Maybe that would deter some of the illegals.

[ras6057]

Well, the truth is that until any vandals are caught damaging these criminal abeting barrels, we are free to speculate about their fate.

Better they be removed altogether, nobody will die as a result of thinking there is a water station in the desert for them to fill up on.

We should put signs up that say "Next Water, 50 Miles." Maybe that would deter some of the illegals.

Rick is that an offer to pay for the signs? The signs that were out there (warning the immigrants not to cross the desert in English and Spanish) are (were) used for target practice. Find them with a lot of bullet holes.

The comments about vandals, the major one have been caught (read report 19 http://www.2453.net/forum/viewtopic.php ... 41bc14d35b) and the vandalism has gone down. Signed by Ray Askins